UcanTu 2008.8.12
final UcanTu meeting Aug. 12
[10:00] Agent Heliosense: hi Stephe
[10:00] TJ Asp is Online
[10:00] You: good moring Agent and Alisa
[10:00] Alisa Cleanslate: Hi Stephe and Agent
[10:00] Draxtor Despres is Offline
[10:01] Asterion Coen: hello folks :)
[10:01] Agent Heliosense: well of course UcanTu is wrapped up
[10:01] You: good morning Asterion
[10:01] Agent Heliosense: hi Asterion

[10:01] Lydia Milner is Online
[10:01] Alisa Cleanslate: Hi Asterion
[10:01] Agent Heliosense: but Shakini encouraged folks to keep working on exhibit designs in between competitions
[10:02] You: good morning TJ
[10:02] Agent Heliosense: hi TJ
[10:02] TJ Asp: greets all around
[10:02] Asterion Coen: hello tj :)
[10:02] TJ Asp: hi
[10:02] Agent Heliosense: so if you havent's already then join the website
[10:02] Alisa Cleanslate: hi
[10:02] Agent Heliosense: http://thetechvirtual.org/createMember
[10:03] Agent Heliosense: Because, the purpose of the project is to develop materials and ideas for use in museum exhibits
[10:03] Agent Heliosense: So your second life building efforts can certainly continue in this mode!
[10:04] You: OUR NEXT COMPETITION WILL BE a reprise of Art Film Music and Games (sorry for the Caps)
[10:04] Agent Heliosense: Upcoming exhibitions will be Art - Film - Music ... a second round
[10:04] Lydia Milner is Offline
[10:04] Agent Heliosense: ty
[10:04] Agent Heliosense: yes games!
[10:04] Alisa Cleanslate: Great
[10:04] Alisa Cleanslate: I missed the first go-round.
[10:05] You: We're just talking with the curator of that to see when we will start
[10:05] Lydia Milner is Online
[10:05] You: maybe early next month (Sept.)
[10:05] Agent Heliosense: also remember there are ways to contribute besides building, there should also be space to contribute film or machinima to the upcoming topic
[10:06] You: In Dec. we expect to begin a competition on Improving our Collective Intelligence
[10:06] You: hi J3rry
[10:06] You: hi, Lydia
[10:06] Agent Heliosense: so, it is getting more interesting and also expanding
[10:06] Asterion Coen: /)
[10:06] Agent Heliosense: hi J3rry
[10:06] Agent Heliosense: hi Lydia
[10:07] Asterion Coen: lag
[10:07] j3rry Paine: woof!
[10:07] Asterion Coen: hello j3, lydia :)
[10:07] Lydia Milner: hi
[10:07] You: J3rry you sit beautifully
[10:07] j3rry Paine: i twy, i twy
[10:07] j3rry Paine: it's hard to keep still
[10:07] Agent Heliosense: So, this is a good time to develop ideas around exhibits on the art-film-music genre, then, we should have more specific instrucitons soon from the curator
[10:08] j3rry Paine: mmmm, lunch
[10:08] Agent Heliosense: I'm particularly excited because it looks like we may be able to rotate some of the machinima on view in the museum, as we get more.
[10:08] Agent Heliosense: at least, the upcoming exhibit will feature that.
[10:09] Agent Heliosense: hi Xarandir
[10:09] Xarandir Habilis: hi guys :)
[10:09] Xarandir Habilis: sorry have to rezz first
[10:09] You: hi, Xarandir, come join us
[10:10] Agent Heliosense: lost Asterion I think
[10:10] Agent Heliosense: anyway also we now have a LinkedIn group
[10:10] You: welcome back TJ
[10:10] Agent Heliosense: please join if you're on it, also a Facebook group http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=29608123071
[10:11] Agent Heliosense: and.. not only that we also have a Flickr account for Tech Virtual at
[10:11] TJ Asp: just checking out the next exhibits
[10:11] Agent Heliosense: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thetechvirtual/
[10:11] You: Xarandir, have a seat and join us
[10:12] Xarandir Habilis: thanks :)
[10:12] Lydia Milner: did agent say anything?
[10:12] Agent Heliosense: So, the work you do here at Tech Virtual should be presentable as design work, not just tinkering inside Second LIfe
[10:12] Lydia Milner: I have terrible performance
[10:12] Xarandir Habilis: you want me to introduce myself?
[10:12] Agent Heliosense: sure Xarandir!
[10:12] Agent Heliosense: Xarandir i know you were at our classess.
[10:12] Xarandir Habilis: ok well i just started to delve into scripting
[10:13] Xarandir Habilis: amazed by the things you can make
[10:13] Xarandir Habilis: and now working on linked dance balls
[10:13] Xarandir Habilis: so thats about my level of experience
[10:13] Xarandir Habilis: and im curious what others can make
[10:13] Xarandir Habilis: lol
[10:13] Xarandir Habilis accepted your inventory offer.
[10:13] Xarandir Habilis: oh thanks stephe
[10:13] Lydia Milner: what is a linked group? I think I am missing half othe chat
[10:14] j3rry Paine: lol make anything you can think of
[10:14] Xarandir Habilis accepted your inventory offer.
[10:14] Agent Heliosense: super there are always folks here looking to learn and share what they've found out
[10:14] Agent Heliosense: We have a LinkedIn group on the website at : http://www.linkedin.com/
[10:14] Xarandir Habilis: you know couple dance balls lydia?
[10:15] Xarandir Habilis: ohh sorry
[10:15] Agent Heliosense: hi Qion
[10:15] Agent Heliosense: please join in
[10:15] Qion Ning: ok just for a few mins
[10:15] Qion Ning: my rl av needs food bad
[10:15] You: hi Qion
[10:15] Qion Ning: who won btw
[10:15] Qion Ning: hi steph
[10:16] You: welcome back, Asterion
[10:16] Asterion Coen: (crashed)
[10:16] Qion Ning: be careful foe the sword a
[10:16] Agent Heliosense: wb Asterion
[10:16] Asterion Coen: i was about saying, better the burger than me
[10:16] Xarandir Habilis: lol
[10:16] You: The good news is that we'll be getting a new sim for the Tech just for development
[10:17] Qion Ning: nice blue dragon av
[10:17] Agent Heliosense: ok there you go Stephe said it
[10:17] Qion Ning: woooowie
[10:17] Qion Ning: great news
[10:17] Agent Heliosense: Yes that's right!
[10:17] You: that should improve the lag, prim limit and maybe otehr issues as well ;-)
[10:17] Qion Ning: the prims were gone last week
[10:17] Lydia Milner: gosh, is qion here too? I can only see Alisa Agent and TJ
[10:17] Agent Heliosense: we were down to 100 or fewer prims at the end
[10:18] Asterion Coen: (less than 100)
[10:18] Agent Heliosense: so, we need a development area badly!
[10:18] Qion Ning: when i was building.on the last radio version there were 0
[10:18] TJ Asp is standing behind Qion
[10:18] Alisa Cleanslate: Yes, Witness had a tough time that last night, rezzing the slides, so that is great new.
[10:18] Lydia Milner: ah hi Qion
[10:18] Lydia Milner: J3rry is a white haze
[10:18] Lydia Milner: *must
[10:18] Lydia Milner: you muse be an angel :)
[10:19] j3rry Paine: no, blue
[10:19] Qion Ning: i've learned in a class a week ago how to make a primcounter that counts only the prims of one avatar
[10:19] Lydia Milner: yes
[10:19] Qion Ning: may be nice for the exhibits?
[10:19] Qion Ning: hi lydia..
[10:19] Lydia Milner: lol
[10:19] Agent Heliosense: so the upcoming round of development should be much facilitated
[10:19] Agent Heliosense: and easier for you developers.
[10:20] Lydia Milner: are you making couple dance balls Zarandir?
[10:20] Agent Heliosense: by the way, if anyone has a website please link to http://www.thetechvirtual.org
[10:20] Xarandir Habilis: lol ytuing to
[10:20] Xarandir Habilis: trying
[10:20] Xarandir Habilis: it works but need to finetune
[10:20] Asterion Coen: (is flickt works as well ?
[10:20] Xarandir Habilis: could buy the script but making ismuch more fun to do
[10:20] Qion Ning: food:::: i want the burger..
[10:21] j3rry Paine: rawr
[10:21] Lydia Milner: I deleted over 200 prims from my exhbs last week
[10:21] Lydia Milner: when i can see everyone i will sit down lol
[10:21] Agent Heliosense: And so in the meantime we will be working on getting the new sim for that, and will continue to have meetings
[10:21] Shakini Parnass is Online
[10:22] Xarandir Habilis: are yuo the owner of the museumstephe?
[10:22] Xarandir Habilis: cause you announced the news
[10:23] Lydia Milner: is anyone sitting in qions left?
[10:23] You: we'll keep having exhibit designers meetings on Tues and Fri
[10:23] Asterion Coen: nop
[10:23] TJ Asp: no lydia
[10:23] Lydia Milner: great
[10:23] Asterion Coen: :)
[10:23] Lydia Milner: hmmmm
[10:23] Lydia Milner: ah better
[10:23] Lydia Milner: yes, a new sim would be good, whats the timefram eon that?
[10:24] Lydia Milner: hi everyone :)
[10:24] You: no, not the owner, Xarandir but the curator of the Tech Virtual
[10:24] Xarandir Habilis: ohhh i see
[10:24] Agent Heliosense: uinknown but working on it, hopefully before any building would start in relation to art-film-music round 2
[10:24] You: whatever that means ;-)
[10:24] Xarandir Habilis: thanks
[10:25] Lydia Milner: will this sim stay the same as it is?
[10:25] Xarandir Habilis: sounds involved tp me
[10:25] Xarandir Habilis: to
[10:25] Agent Heliosense: so again, if you are on facebook please join at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=29608123071
[10:25] Asterion Coen: hello sha :)
[10:25] Lydia Milner: you will past chat wont you , with all thhese links in?
[10:25] Shakini Parnass: hello everyone
[10:25] You: Hi, Shakini, still tippling, I see
[10:25] Lydia Milner: Hi shakini :)
[10:26] Agent Heliosense: and if on http://www.linkedin.com/ there is also a group and i'll try to get a more precise url to join
[10:26] Shakini Parnass: tippling?
[10:26] Agent Heliosense: hi shakini
[10:26] TJ Asp: what is this will the tech staff sipping on wine? what's going on out there in CA? :-)
[10:26] You: yes, I will post this chat ;-)
[10:26] Lydia Milner: lol
[10:26] Shakini Parnass: i thought it was champagne
[10:26] Lydia Milner: great thanks i can get the links form there then
[10:26] Agent Heliosense: leftovers from the awards friday!
[10:26] TJ Asp: ah
[10:26] TJ Asp: salute :-)
[10:26] Asterion Coen: not champagne, that champomy
[10:27] Shakini Parnass: just a bit of the bubbly
[10:28] Qion Ning: by the way.. is there someone here who knows a lot about C? got this problem converting chars to float..
[10:28] Agent Heliosense: also one more bit of business
[10:28] Shakini Parnass: congratulations again!
[10:29] Xarandir Habilis: well i'm no programmer but chars to float?
[10:30] TJ Asp: Qion, are talking about type casting?
[10:30] Exhibit Moving Kit: Hello, Avatar!
[10:30] j3rry Paine: C sucks
[10:31] Xarandir Habilis: lol
[10:31] Qion Ning: its about reading 5 bytes in a microcontroller and making a float of it..
[10:31] Xarandir Habilis: ohh
[10:31] Lydia Milner: sorry lost me :)
[10:31] Qion Ning: i'll guess i have to figure out how to do that myself..lol
[10:31] TJ Asp: string stringVariable = (float)floatValue;
[10:31] TJ Asp: ah
[10:31] TJ Asp: low level stuff?
[10:31] j3rry Paine: depends more on the libc you're using
[10:31] Qion Ning: no problem..need some real food first..
[10:31] TJ Asp: in C, not LSL.. nvm
[10:31] Xarandir Habilis: oh i also had a question
[10:31] Qion Ning: i can try that..thnx..
[10:32] j3rry Paine: lol and whether you need printf
[10:32] TJ Asp: [10:31] You: string stringVariable = (float)floatValue; <--- totall wrong btw
[10:32] Agent Heliosense: We will next be working to archive and save your work, so on the bable here
[10:32] Agent Heliosense: on the table here is an Exhibit moving kit
[10:33] Agent Heliosense: please buy for $0
[10:33] Xarandir Habilis: the red box?
[10:33] Agent Heliosense: those of you with exhibits, what you will need to do is
[10:33] Lydia Milner: is this any changed from the one before?
[10:33] Lydia Milner: hmm, is htat big box for the fries?
[10:33] Agent Heliosense: put the script contained there into each prim or root prim of your exhibit
[10:33] Agent Heliosense: Lydia, it's the same as before
[10:33] Asterion Coen: almost
[10:34] Asterion Coen: (but it usefull too, to coding :)
[10:34] Lydia Milner: ok thanks
[10:34] You: no, Lydia, I don't htink so
[10:34] Lydia Milner: lol
[10:34] Lydia Milner: Stephe did we get as far as confirming before that all parts had to be all perms,, or just 2 of the 3? Do you remember?
[10:34] Qion Ning: nice pc
[10:35] j3rry Paine: it is a high expectation for exhibitors to automate the transportation of their exhibits
[10:35] j3rry Paine: even if packagers/rezzers did all work properly and perms are set properly
[10:35] Agent Heliosense: J3rry you are correct.
[10:36] j3rry Paine: and of course, they are without flaws :))
[10:36] You: sorry, no, Lydia, I don't remember
[10:36] You: it is all a blur after all that chanpagne
[10:36] Lydia Milner: ok :)
[10:36] Lydia Milner: lol
[10:36] Asterion Coen: :)
[10:37] Agent Heliosense: So, there are a couple of ways to do so, for example your exhibit can be linked into 1 but this sometimes causes issues with moving parts
[10:37] Agent Heliosense: the scripted method is meant to rez the items where they belong
[10:37] j3rry Paine: like western civ, that would be a good idea
[10:37] Asterion Coen: i got some oriental medicines about drunk
[10:37] Lydia Milner: it did work quite well when we tested it a couple months ago
[10:37] You: ol
[10:37] You: lol
[10:37] Asterion Coen: usefull for blur too
[10:37] BlackOwl Sorbet is Online
[10:38] Lydia Milner: the rezzing in place part
[10:38] Agent Heliosense: ok that's good news, I have gotten it to work somewhat but not tested on other peoples work
[10:38] Lydia Milner: Stephe and I did some playing with it a while ago, I will try and find the final email with the status of as far as we got for you agent
[10:39] Agent Heliosense: basically, all the items, scripts and textures in your exhibit should allow copy - modify -transfer
[10:39] Lydia Milner: yes, i think we did one that was no mod and it got deleted ha ha
[10:39] Agent Heliosense: otherwise, this won't work, no worries no one is going to sell your stuff
[10:40] j3rry Paine: changing perms is not always possible
[10:40] Agent Heliosense: i do want to start building resources for the entire project that are created, and will be developing a method soon.
[10:40] TJ Asp: gotta go, bye
[10:40] TJ Asp is Offline
[10:40] Agent Heliosense: ok tj
[10:40] Asterion Coen: cya TJ
[10:40] j3rry Paine: ta tj
[10:40] Agent Heliosense: j3rry, this is correct, so, try to build with only full permission content
[10:40] Qion Ning: me too
[10:40] Qion Ning: bye
[10:41] Lydia Milner: bye Qion
[10:41] Qion Ning: really nead real food bad..;)
[10:41] Qion Ning: have fun
[10:41] Lydia Milner: lol
[10:41] Asterion Coen: hehe qion :)
[10:41] Xarandir Habilis: yes moving on too
[10:41] Agent Heliosense: Coming into this a few weeks ago, it hasnt' bee
[10:41] Xarandir Habilis: have fun guys
[10:41] Asterion Coen: (i should ask royalties to mc donald)
[10:41] Lydia Milner: Agent, I think more clarification is needed in that area. For example,
[10:41] Agent Heliosense: hasn't been clear enough, and will be writing up instrucitons.
[10:41] Agent Heliosense: Thanks Lydia, it's high on my list!
[10:42] Lydia Milner: for fogquest I went ot a webpage and bought some graphics, preferring that to faffing about making them
[10:43] Lydia Milner: but I paid for a certain use, and in giving the exhb to you guys therefore do not give you the perms to do anything with those graphics other than keep them in the exhb in SL as was my original intention
[10:43] Asterion Coen: so, the next build projects will focus on cinema music (like mary popins, or.. ?)
[10:43] Qion Ning is Offline
[10:43] Lydia Milner: I tihnk these boudnaries need to be clarified, and also that the exhb concept is creative coommons not the separate items/assets that make up the exhb
[10:44] Agent Heliosense: Lydia this is right, the creative commons applies to the real life use of your exhibit.
[10:44] Agent Heliosense: The contents of your SL building are not going to be distributed other than
[10:44] Agent Heliosense: perhaps being displayed as is.
[10:45] Lydia Milner: thats ok I know what you do with them, but it has not been very clearly exaplained in the past
[10:45] Lydia Milner: its an intersting legal area
[10:45] Ada Hoobinoo: what do i learn here
[10:45] Agent Heliosense: Thanks Lydia, I noticed that immediately as well, and will be making it more clear.
[10:45] Agent Heliosense: hi Ada please join
[10:46] Ada Hoobinoo: what can i learn here
[10:46] Agent Heliosense: how did you find our meeting Ada?
[10:46] Lydia Milner: good, i tihnk it puts quite a few people off :)
[10:46] Ada Hoobinoo: search in events
[10:46] Lydia Milner: Hi ada :)
[10:46] Agent Heliosense: We are designing exhibits for musuems, Ada. There's some info here on the table
[10:46] Ada Hoobinoo: what that
[10:46] Asterion Coen: (not the burgers)
[10:47] Ada Hoobinoo: im from norway
[10:47] Agent Heliosense: fantastic! We have such an international group here.
[10:48] Ada Hoobinoo: so tell me
[10:48] Ada Hoobinoo: im new
[10:48] Agent Heliosense: Ada we have some information online at http://www.thetechvirtual.org
[10:49] Agent Heliosense: and what we do is develop exhibits which may be going into real museums.
[10:49] Ada Hoobinoo accepted your inventory offer.
[10:49] Agent Heliosense: It is a project by The Tech Museum of Innovation in San Jose , CA
[10:49] Lydia Milner: Shakini, had any of the judges seen the exhibits for the first time last week?
[10:49] Shakini Parnass: yes
[10:50] You: yes, several of them
[10:50] Shakini Parnass: there were 7 judges and 3 had not seen any of the projects
[10:50] Shakini Parnass: they were very impressed
[10:50] Lydia Milner: Ah ok, had these 3 been in SL before of was that new to them too?
[10:50] Lydia Milner: *or
[10:50] Shakini Parnass: i'm not sure...
[10:50] Agent Heliosense: It was tough for them to decide, many good exhibits
[10:51] Agent Heliosense: also, we are getting our own Teen GRid sim
[10:51] You: well one was out intern from the teen grid, so the exhibits in the MG were all new to him
[10:51] Agent Heliosense: Stephe announced that Friday
[10:51] Lydia Milner: ah thats very good news
[10:51] Alisa Cleanslate: Everyone of them was good.
[10:52] Alisa Cleanslate: Glad I wasm
[10:52] Alisa Cleanslate: wasn't a judge.
[10:52] You: I'll have pics of all the winning exhibits soon
[10:52] Alisa Cleanslate: lol
[10:52] Agent Heliosense: We are nearing 11am, so
[10:52] Lydia Milner: lol
[10:52] Asterion Coen: if u will excuse me. i have to buy some food b4 the shop close :)
[10:52] Lydia Milner: is there still 2 mtgs a week?
[10:52] You: http://thetechvirtual.org/blog
[10:52] Asterion Coen: i brb
[10:52] Agent Heliosense: classes continue, meeting next Friday as before yes, and
[10:52] Lydia Milner: and will they be covering differenet thigns?
[10:52] You: bon appetit, Asterion
[10:53] Asterion Coen: merci :)
[10:53] Agent Heliosense: anyone who has a second life or design or museum related website please let me know and link to us http://www.thetechvirtual.org
[10:53] You: yes, we'll keep to the Tues/Fri schedule
[10:53] You: but we won't call this meeting UcanTu any more ;-)
[10:54] Alisa Cleanslate: Do the meetings have different topics?
[10:54] You: Actually, the name UcanTu has been changed for the Gallery, too
[10:54] Agent Heliosense: it's Exhibit Designer's meeting, they won't have different topics
[10:54] Lydia Milner: oh really? what to?
[10:54] Shakini Parnass: Touch the World
[10:54] You: the sponsor thought it was too "ethnic"
[10:54] Agent Heliosense: for the time being, because new folks often show up
[10:55] Lydia Milner: hmm, both are good names
[10:55] Shakini Parnass: the tagline will be the official tech awards line: technology benefiting humanity
[10:55] Shakini Parnass: to keep the tie in to tech awards
[10:55] Lydia Milner: yes, the touch the world sounds better with the tagline
[10:56] Shakini Parnass: metaphorically, the idea is also to inspire people to touch the world in their own way
[10:56] Shakini Parnass: after they see how the tech award laureates have touched the world
[10:56] Lydia Milner: yes, sounds more spiritual that the ucantu
[10:56] Agent Heliosense: naming is a really hard job, actually
[10:56] Lydia Milner: oh yes v hard
[10:57] Shakini Parnass: speaking of names, are you okay with us using barefoot brilliance?
[10:57] Lydia Milner: using it for?
[10:57] You: so, Lydia and Alisa you can choose to get your prizes in dollars or lindens
[10:57] Alisa Cleanslate: Dollars please.
[10:57] Lydia Milner: dollars is prob easier
[10:57] Lydia Milner: haha let me pull up the forex chart :)
[10:58] Shakini Parnass: i've got to run to a RL meeting at 11 -- see y'all!! congrats again
[10:58] Agent Heliosense: bye Shakini
[10:58] Lydia Milner: thanks, using it for what?
[10:58] Alisa Cleanslate: Thanks Shakini, and congrats to you.
[10:58] You: bye Shakini
[10:58] Shakini Parnass: title of the barefoot college exhibit
[10:58] Lydia Milner: its been great orking with you shakini :)
[10:58] j3rry Paine: ;-)
[10:59] Shakini Parnass: likewise!
[10:59] Lydia Milner: yes ok
[10:59] Wytchwhisper Sadofsky is Online
[10:59] Shakini Parnass: great thanks!
[10:59] j3rry Paine: i suggest that using the ll$ microcurrency is a worthwhile goal
[10:59] Lydia Milner: vvvvffddvvvFTDSFSFGGFFFFF SYFTSYUGFZDYU GYUVDFCC V HJM C
[10:59] Shakini Parnass: okay bye!
[11:00] Lydia Milner: SORRY MY LITTE HELPER
[11:00] Lydia Milner: bye :)
[11:00] Shakini Parnass is Offline
[11:00] Agent Heliosense: yes J3rry, do you mean for prizes
[11:00] You: hi, Amelia
[11:00] j3rry Paine: for burgers too!
[11:00] Lydia Milner: hello
[11:00] You: yummm
[11:01] Lydia Milner: ah she did that herself :)
[11:01] You: precocious!
[11:01] Agent Heliosense: well then i"m going to head out as well.
[11:01] Lydia Milner: lol she just pointed at you and said hello to rob
[11:02] You: she'll go far
[11:02] Asterion Coen: back
[11:02] Agent Heliosense: Asterion, you had asked about the upcoming exhibit earlier, yes the theme will be Art-Film-Music
[11:02] You: shall we call this a wrap?
[11:02] Agent Heliosense: and we will have more specifics later but i do know that machinima will be part of it
[11:02] Asterion Coen: great
[11:03] Asterion Coen: (is starwars works too?)
[11:03] Lydia Milner: yes we are going now
[11:03] You: but digital aspects of Art Film & Music
[11:03] Asterion Coen: (some nice music in)
[11:03] Lydia Milner: bye all
[11:03] Asterion Coen: have fun lydia :)
[11:03] Agent Heliosense: Asterion i think you are creative and can find a way to involve space somehow1
[11:03] You: bye Lydia
[11:04] You: bye Lydia and Amelia
[11:04] Agent Heliosense: !
[11:04] Asterion Coen: yes, will be better as builder than michinima
[11:04] Agent Heliosense: bye Lydia andsee you all Friday, or at class
[11:04] Asterion Coen: machinima
[11:04] Alisa Cleanslate: bye, Lydia
[11:05] Asterion Coen: some ppl on here use to play with foodn that's bad
[11:05] You: So let's close this meeting. I'll post the chat log
[11:05] Agent Heliosense: should be a lot of creative space in Art-Film - music
[11:05] Agent Heliosense: ok thanks stephe
